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 <description>Although most of us don&#039;t think of ourselves as artists, the fact is that we are surrounded and influenced by art all of our lives.  For Art&#039;s Sake examines the lifestyle, inspiration, and work of many different types of artists and art enthusiasts. From comic book artists who love to cartoon to gallery owners with a passion that drives them to exhibit the work of others, there is something interesting and exciting for everyone in the world of art. </description>
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 <itunes:summary>Although most of us don&#039;t think of ourselves as artists, the fact is that we are surrounded and influenced by art all of our lives.  For Art&#039;s Sake examines the lifestyle, inspiration, and work of many different types of artists and art enthusiasts. From comic book artists who love to cartoon to gallery owners with a passion that drives them to exhibit the work of others, there is something interesting and exciting for everyone in the world of art.

See more of this great show and others at www.onnetworks.com.

All of ON Networks&#039; shows are available in both Apple TV HD and a smaller version that plays on both iPods and iPhones. To download a different version of this show, click on the &quot;See All Podcasts&quot; link and select the version you&#039;d like to download!</itunes:summary>
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 <media:text type="html"><![CDATA[For arts sake
Episode “Michael McMillen”

Michael McMillen: People say what kind of artists are you?  And I say well I am a visual artist, and I say that because I do not want to define myself too narrowly.  To me photography, filmmaking, and sculpture installation, printmaking, drawing are all fair game.  They are all things I like to experiment with, because they’re all experiments.  So I think visual art kind of covers all the bases.
I try to create situations that I myself would like to fall upon totally by surprise.  I think a lot of it came from my dad; my dad had been an actor and he and worked many years behind the cameras in Hollywood as a scenic artist.  I would watch him make these sets that kind of looked one way on television and quite different person.  That seemed like a very at the time potent metaphor for what I was seeing in life, of the different aspects of the same situation.
I wanted to explore that duality of reality.  I wanted to present things that weren’t as they seemed.  So in a lot of my pieces, the installations if you look closely you’ll see what they really are.  For the casual observer at first glance you think there is something else.
So for as an example in the garage piece at LACMA, it appears to be a maid 20th century urban garage and on one level it appears to be that but it is really something else it is a metaphorical picture of Los Angeles.  Then I don’t expect anyone else to get that except for me because I was making it an expression of my interest in that subject at the time.  A lot of the installations have little clues to their true identity in them if you look close enough, so the idea of the more you look of the more you see has been very appealing to me.
As a kid I had a wagon than I would pull around behind me and I would go down my alleys here, way before they were paved, they were tar and sand it that point back in the 50’s.  I would find I would hunt through trash and find old tube radios and record players and bits of world war two tossed out, like an aviator’s cap or something like that.  I would drag it home and I had this little collection of objects, I would take the radios apart with little pliers that I would borrow from my grandfather.  
I had a little box of tubes, resistors, and capacitors in tuners and knobs.  So there’s some sense of ordering things and deconstructing things and trying to understand what they were.  Things that seemed interesting for whatever reason I would want to look at, I guess maybe because they were visually appealing.  I would also make up stories about what they were for.  I think all of that idea of finding objects of interests continued into adulthood as you can see it has gotten out of control.
The problem is that I see too much potential in anything that I look at, gee I could use this for that or one of these or one of those, and pretty soon I am awash in stuff.  The appeal that objects that are used have for me, perhaps it comes from my elderly grandparents as parent figures.  I grew up in their house, with their furniture, and their photographs and all their friends were elderly so I was as little kid always with these very mature adults for my company for the very early years of my life so perhaps that sense of history translated over to objects that had had a previous life before I got them, had some sort of resonance to me.
What I am doing more now, my interest is going to film, making my own little films and with that it allows me not to have to own so much stuff anymore.  Film really allows me to go back and really mind my own history of images and recontextuailize them.  They’re like visual collages, almost a series of stream of consciousness images that you look at and move on to the next.  And there is a, I guess Dalt created the mind of this totality that forms an impression in the viewer, hopefully at the end of the film.
I want to compare images that are sometimes startling and sometimes illogical so we never quite know where it is going but it leads you. It is like a dream you know every dream is new and they’re usually quite fascinating because we don’t know where they’re going, and at the end we wake up.  I like that about film, is the closest thing we can get the dreaming I guess and share it with someone else is making a film.
I keep hoping to be surprised and amazed by art and every so often happens and that is why I like museums so much because the work there has been gleaned from the history of art and the good pieces are generally in museums now and when I find it, it is, how do you describe it?  There is always something so satisfying and amazing.  I guess I like things that amaze me and art does that when it is good.
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 <item> <title>Brian Apthorp - Comic Book Artist</title>
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 <media:text type="html"><![CDATA[For Art's Sake
Episode "Brian Apthorp, comic book artist"

Brian: Comic books, for me as a child, as a boy, of course they were almost entirely--well they were entirely a mainstream entertainment, aimed at kids. And for a boy or girl that age, that kind of spectacular fantasy is a natural. It wasn't just the bright colors and the pure fantasies of being strong and powerful and making things happen in the world, but rather a context of drama and exciting things--bigger than my life, but which carried within it, in the very bones of that ink and paper, a subconscious potency of the true emotions of the people who made them. 
And those people who I was attracted to were those who had the most dramatic sense; an overt sense of drama, and an overt sense of a grandeur--a grandeur to life. And that really is the essence of what I seek in art, is a resonance of that wonder. 
I first worked for Neal Adams' Continuity Comics, and did a number of books for him. Then I pencilled for Dark Horse Comics and then DC Comics, principally Batman & Poison Ivy stories but also Vertigo. I'm so grateful for some of the opportunities I've had to work with, or have my work inked by, artists who I admired deeply: Craig Russell, and one of my best friends in comics, Scott Hampton inked "The Dreaming: Trial and Error" book. 
I love "Peanuts" and "Calvin & Hobbes", the beautiful, expressive qualities of them, but my own stuff is inspired by the magic of the physical world; it's fragile miracle. I can't say I achieve this tragic beauty, as I call it, but I realized eventually that was the central motive for drawing the way I do. As for my graphic novel, I had a very creative and reasonably happy childhood at home with my sister and my brother, my parents, but at school it was a totally different story, I didn't seem to be able to make friends and I was quite lonely, particularly in adolescence.
When I was a still a teenager I remember lying on my bed, looking up at the ceiling and thinking to myself how little there was to reflect, in the world of entertainment, the world around me, television, film, whatever--the experience of someone like me. And I made a pact with myself that I would make something, I would do something--I would write a comic book, make a comic book perhaps, that would address those things that I was experiencing and suffering, for people like me.
However the story is not all suffering and angst and anguish; there is humor in it and drama and some romantic stuff, sexy stuff, y'know, god knows. Because it is an attempt, even though it is in dramatic form and has fantasy elements to it, it is an attempt to be as honest as I can be about my own experience, my own consciousness as an adolescent. When you are the most malleable and could become anything, good, bad or indifferent. Even though at the time you may feel oppressed, constrained, limited, and have no view that you have a chance to become anything or to achieve or have any of the things you need so badly. Yet it's all there available to you.
And what a wonderful time; what a wonderful state to be in, if only you knew. If only you knew. But you don't know, and that's crucial. You can't know. And you know, maybe it can't happen, maybe it won't happen--because maybe it won't. But I think, I hope in my story it will happen, it will all happen, in a strange way, but it will all happen.
And the whole thing about drawing comics in a studio space, in your own little spot, with your drawing table and your pencils and your paper, lit by the natural light, and I just thought gosh, that would be such a wonderful way to live. To make art, to tell stories coming out of my own self onto the paper, that would be a dream. And somehow or other, though it took a long time, eventually it did come to me, or I came to it. And I'm sort of amazed at that, that I actually got to do what I dreamed of doing.



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 <item> <title>David Simon - Sculptor</title>
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 <pubDate>Thu, 29 Nov 2007 17:22:00 -0600</pubDate>
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 <media:title>David Simon - Sculptor</media:title>
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 <media:text type="html"><![CDATA[For arts Sake
Episode “David Simon, sculptor”


David Simon: Frequently with my work the initial spark of it is visual, I like sort of the certain way that a form repeats.  If an arm is out at an angle I like the way the overall shape of the figure relates to that particular physiology of the model.  And so I start to play it up and then meanings emerge out of that as opposed to me putting a meaning on it at the beginning.  And one of the things that I think that came out of doing the series of amputated figures was the idea of a physical aspect of a person missing paralleling a either emotional or psychic void.

The scale of the work that I do evolved over time, if I was to do one of my pieces life-size I think it would lose a little bit of its strange quality because it is essentially the same size as you and you are reacting to it in the same way.  The pieces that I do are kind of in between that level, they are four maybe 4 ½ feet tall, which I hope sort of gives them that strange quality where they’re not quite doll like and there not quite the same size as you, so you can interact with them in a different way.

Subconsciously there are definitely reasons why after living for 10 years in an apartment in Brooklyn and then all of a sudden moving across the country I would want to do sort of an expo, self portrait because I was trying to figure out what I was doing with my life at that point.  I don’t think it was anything as conscious is that, the pragmatic reason was that I needed a model and my wife, even though she said she would pose for me the schedule was so erratic that I was not able to get very much work done, so I just switched it.  It is actually fairly typical of my work, from starting a piece one way it will transform into something else.

Eventually I came up with a method of building these larger sculptures and allowed me to change them radically, from standing or sitting, or from male to female in the middle.  In terms of building arms in a certain way it would allow me to dismantle them in reconfigure them while there was clay on them and that is why I am unfortunately not as quick as I would like to be in producing these.  The older I get the more I’ve sort of count out the ex amount of times, how many do I have left before I go?  How many more pieces are left in me?  It makes me think that each one has to be getting better.

I have a very sort of profound feeling of the idea that someone chose to live with one of the things that I created and I think that for me that is kind of a big deal.  I think that it feels like, because I don’t do necessarily objects that are purely aesthetic or purely beautiful.  They have a little bit of difficulty to looking at them.  I hope that they are beautiful on a certain level, but for someone to actually to decide that they want to live with something is really a very important thing to me and at the same time I’m a little disappointed to let it go and not live with it myself anymore.

Unfortunately so many people focus on absolutisms in contemporary society.  Why would you fund that museum when their children starving in Africa?  But if you carry that to its logical conclusion why would you do anything when their people starving in Africa?  Why did you buy shoes?  Why could and you have more in the sneakers for 10 years?  I mean anything that you do pales in comparison to bigger issues and so to me that is not really a valid argument. I mean people argue that all the time for NASA, why are we spending billions of dollars to shoot people in this space when people are starving?  

I think there is a really valuable function to the idea behind NASA, which is to me very similar to the idea behind art, which is the expansion of human consciousness.  To know what is beyond who we are and I think art functions in that way, I think space exploration functions that way.  If you relegate society to the most base needs, like as long as we’re providing food and water to every body we are a great society, I think that is an important function.  But I do not think it is the only function of society I think it is as important to feed peoples sort of imagination, and to perpetuate the advancement of society and culture.
]]></media:text>
 <itunes:duration>6:03</itunes:duration>
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 <itunes:subtitle>David Simon, a sculptor of nudes allows us to look at ourselves as we are internally.</itunes:subtitle>
 <itunes:author>ON Networks</itunes:author>
</item>
 <item> <title>Marc Trujillo - Painter</title>
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 <pubDate>Thu, 15 Nov 2007 17:07:00 -0600</pubDate>
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 <media:title>Marc Trujillo - Painter</media:title>
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 <media:text type="html"><![CDATA[For Art's Sake  
Episode “Marc Trujillo”

Marc: I grew up in Albuquerque, New Mexico and where I'm from there is about a 2000 foot raise in altitude, the altitude is very high like you're a mile above sea level and that air is very dry.  You are always aware that you are about this big, which makes sense to me as a worldview and manifest itself may be especially, clearly in my painting behind me in the way that I scaled the figures to the painting.
It is important that they are specific, that they look like they are doing what they are doing, but they are definitely held in check by their relative scale.  So it is not really, I would not say it is insignificance, but I would say it is relative significance definitely.  The sort of space is the main character, the figures are important supporting characters that I want to be convincing, but they are supporting.
And all these places are not meant for you to be there in the present and I think, you know, that they are not designed for you to enjoy really.  They are high-volume, they are meant for you to move through, to pass through, and that is a lot of what we spend our lives doing.  We live in a huge city, and we live in a city where these places are all over the place, and when you're in these places you could be sort of anyway.  That kind of anonymity is one of the horrors of modern life.
On the other hand, I don't despise these places; I am not trying to be critical about them.  I am trying to hold a balance and sort of show them and be concise about them; I like that balance the two sides of them are important to me for me to stay interested in looking at something for a long time.  As opposed to being something that is one-sided, like isn't this great or isn't this bad, because both of those things play out for me much more quickly.
How I get from seeing something that I think will make a good painting, to drawing it through initially in a sketchbook, with smaller drawings.  I sort of sort out how I think, what I looked at that would make a good painting and then distilling that through continuing to draw and going to a larger drawing to develop it more, to be a little more concise about what I want out as a painting.
I like the larger occasion of this sort of space, there is something’s that are definitely invented.  I mean these are fiction, but some of the thing is that I decide to make fictive aren't necessarily, they are very impassive.  This is fiction, but that is formal, I like how the Orange held up the top of the painting in terms of color that it needed.  There is both like additive and reduction, things that I took out.  I will show you in the drawing of there was a big battery stand right here, which sort of made it harder to get to this big stretch of linoleum with these fluorescent lights coming back off of it, which is a lot of what I like about this.  I took that out, and her I put in actually, David was with me when I sort of followed this woman around because I liked her, I like what she had on.
The painting gets cast, after I sort of figured out what the space is going to be, then I started casting, I put the figures and as sort of a counterpoint to the architecture to try to help the way the viewer’s eye moves through the space. You know, one of the most, when I'm scaling up the painting from the grezeye, to the painting surfaces I will start with coloured pencil and I will start figuring out, I will start going from interval to interval.  
I will put the vanishing point on the painting.  I will start building things up, because in terms of thinking things through visually, interval is sort of the most fundamental tool.  Like how close are things together, how close are things to the side of the painting, you know what is the sort of proportional relation, what sort of rhythms do you set up.  Are they rhythms that are interesting or are they part of the character of the space that you want to convey what are they've something that is less considered as a part of what you want to convey.
Reading is a way of describing to me that is much less open ended then the way things look, and is much less interesting to me than the way things look.  When you write a word on a painting, like when you write a word on a wall your eye is pulled to the factual surface, so it goes from this illusion, this sort of space that I've taken a lot of care to articulate right back to the flat surface.  I do as much as I can in the paintings to sort of knowledge towards the visual, rather than the textual.
Bruegel it is, in terms of a literary person that I really respond to, a painting like the Fall of Icarus, where you have this story of Icarus is plunging into the water in the middle of the painting and it does not matter.  The guy is ploughing in the foreground.  
Historically painting is about 250 000 years older than written language, developmentally kids do some sort of mark making as a way to try to organize your sensory experience that forms a foundation for language, like pan culturally. So painting or some kind of mark making is a precondition, a necessary precondition to make this statement that it does not matter.
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 <itunes:duration>6:14</itunes:duration>
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</item>
 <item> <title>Scott Hampton - Comic Book Artist</title>
 <link>http://onnetworks.com/videos/for-arts-sake/scott-hampton---comic-book-artist</link>
 <description>Scott Hampton discusses his comic books and graphic novels&lt;br&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://onnetworks.com/videos/for-arts-sake/scott-hampton---comic-book-artist&quot;&gt;&lt;img src=&quot;http://images.onnetworks.com/images/forartssake_hampton_425x239.jpg&quot; title=&quot;Scott Hampton - Comic Book Artist&quot;&gt;&lt;/a&gt;</description>
 <pubDate>Thu, 18 Oct 2007 10:32:00 -0500</pubDate>
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 <media:title>Scott Hampton - Comic Book Artist</media:title>
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 <media:description type="html">Scott Hampton discusses his comic books and graphic novels</media:description>
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 <media:text type="html"><![CDATA[For Arts sake
Episode “Scott Hampton, comic book artist”

Scott: I think that what I'm drawing and painting I am not conscious of anything, except the fact that I'm absorbed into what I'm doing.  When it is working, hours will go by and I'm not aware of them. It is the best diet I know for me, I go for eight hours and I don't eat I don't want to eat and it’s weird.  It is a strange situation.
Horror is what we try to avoid in our lives, and yet… Jeff, hey how's it going guys that's great please do.  Death is a very scary possibility; I mean it is more than that, a scary thing.  And as a young person I saw certain things happen that made me really scared of it.  And I didn't have much to work with in terms of coping with that.  So I was very attracted to catharsis in film and in reading, which allowed me a certain vent for that fear.
So yeah, I am more interested in real horror.  And to me that comes from having empathy.  What I want is someone to, is basically accept the idea that these people are like people that I know I have been through some of the things that they have been through.  I take it for granted that we have this connection, I'm not going to concern myself too much with things other than what is happening to these people as the unusual starts to happen.  And then they are up against something that I have feared.  And to me that is really the key.
I think that if I make my characters too sympathetic, too cartoony or too likable, then when the scary stuff starts to happen I worry that they will be too concerned about the people and whether or not they will live, then taking in the plot points and the dynamism of the action and the actual arc of the story. To cause empathy without overly, you know without too much sympathy.
The thing that I'm working on right now is a new book, it is a monthly comic book which I've never done.  I have been in comics for 25 years; I've never actually done a monthly comic.  And it is called Simon Dark.  It is written by Steve Niles and I'm doing the art on it.  Steve and I are co creators.
It is actually a story about a 17-year-old boy who is composed of different body parts, all youngsters like himself.  He is sort of a Frankenstein character, tapestry.  It was Steve's I think very good notion to play with the Frankenstein idea but to set up a character at a time when that character is at his most vulnerable and least defined and most at sea.  Which are the teenage years, the idea of identity, how we construct ourselves is the core of the storyline.
On the technical side I'm creating it almost as animation.  I'm doing all the drawings of the people on separate sheets of paper; all the backgrounds are done on separate sheets of paper.  And I'm putting them together in Photoshop, and by that means I am able to create all kinds of convincing environments without having to draw it again and again and again, which is the most laborious part of drawing comics.  The beauty of drawing comics with this technique is that I repeat very little.  And so I'm going what a wonderful time for me to finally be doing a monthly comic book.  
The beauty of the comic to me is in the gutter.  The fact that you have this space between the images, it is in that space it is in this space that the reader is able to invest himself and to create that hinge of action or what ever between the two panels.  It can be something as dramatic as someone lifting their like to kick someone, and then the next panel that person is flying through the air, while it is in that gutter that the cake happened.  But you see it and you know it and you fill that in.  And of course as the reader you're going to fill that in, in the most interesting way possible.  I feel that there is no other reading and looking experience like it.  The fact that you are obliged to be a participant is I think particular to comics.

]]></media:text>
 <itunes:duration>5:59</itunes:duration>
 <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
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 <itunes:subtitle>Scott Hampton discusses his comic books and graphic novels</itunes:subtitle>
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</item>
 <item> <title>Cynthia Sitton - Painter</title>
 <link>http://onnetworks.com/videos/for-arts-sake/cynthia-sitton---painter</link>
 <description>Cynthia Sitton explains how the dark and the light provide inspiration&lt;br&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://onnetworks.com/videos/for-arts-sake/cynthia-sitton---painter&quot;&gt;&lt;img src=&quot;http://images.onnetworks.com/images/forartssake_sitton_425x239.jpg&quot; title=&quot;Cynthia Sitton - Painter&quot;&gt;&lt;/a&gt;</description>
 <pubDate>Thu, 11 Oct 2007 17:13:00 -0500</pubDate>
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 <media:title>Cynthia Sitton - Painter</media:title>
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 <media:text type="html"><![CDATA[For arts sake
Episode “Cynthia Sitton painter”

Cynthia: It is hard to talk about my work without I guess backing up a little bit and how much it has become informed by psychology in the subconscious. And it is equally as hard to talk about my work without talking about my daughter who became ill.  From there I was introduced to psychologists and psychiatrists and just different aspects of the brain and how it worked, and how our mind works. And that began to seep into my work really.
I think what my daughter got sick, she still is but when she was deeply in her sickness and mental illness the work was completely self-involved and completely cathartic.  It was the only way I could escape.  I could go, I could block out the rest of the world.  And even though I intellectually designed the painting there was this powerful emotion that was coming out of it.  But I realized that no matter how much I try to make a painting about what I think about someone else, I end up in there anyway.  I mean it is impossible not to.  
When I think of a picture, it comes in to my mind and I take these adolescents that I have known and I put them where I want them.  And I compose it, and I rearrange it, and that is when I know that the subconscious stuff starts leaking through.
And if the images, and if I'm not entirely sure why I am doing the image the way I am.  I still try to stay true to it, unless it is of course going aesthetically wrong and then the composition is just not going to work.  I mean I have to have formal qualities with it at the same time, so that it is a balance.
But that is what I like, is the multilayered element to it.  That is what I've always been attracted to in art.  That you look at it, you initially have your, ah it is beautiful.  And then you look at it again and it is like oh.  And then again and it is like uh, this may be sad, or you might be angry.  And it just has more and more depth. And then you find out that it has a connection to literature.  You might find out that it has a connection to a movie.  It might have a connection to just what is going on that person's life at the time.
I like the hidden quality to art; I like to be left with wondering what somebody put in that.  And then being able to fantasize what it is about that, that makes me feel the way it does.  And I actually like that when it happens with my own work.  And then you know I wonder why it happened the way that it did.  And that is kind of a little addictive to because I would like to continue to keep doing that.
I find out about myself, and I think other people do.  I hope so when they look at it.  When somebody is putting themselves into a piece of work it is always interesting to me how their work matches their personality so much.  Do they labor over the work or do they not?  Do they express, are they tight?  How much detail do they show?  And nine times out of 10 the detail oriented painter, is a detailed person in their life, everything that they do down to the smallest.  If they are a grand painter, they are a grand person and they do everything grandly.
There are aspects that are exactly, exactly like their work and some people may not like to know an artist connected with their art.  But as an artist I love it because it just it adds another depth to it that I would have never known before.  A couple of times of being with these people I felt like I had found my tribe.  You know there were, there is a commonality, there is an energy level, and there is a creative flow that happens.  Whenever I would leave I would feel filled.  If you are able to choose a family that would be the family that I chose.
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 <itunes:duration>4:35</itunes:duration>
 <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
 <itunes:keywords>art paint bio women creative profile what who</itunes:keywords>
 <itunes:subtitle>Cynthia Sitton explains how the dark and the light provide inspiration</itunes:subtitle>
 <itunes:author>ON Networks</itunes:author>
</item>
 <item> <title>Kim Merrill - Painter</title>
 <link>http://onnetworks.com/videos/for-arts-sake/kim-merrill</link>
 <description>A dedicated mother who discovered her talents later in life, but no less fulfilled.&lt;br&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://onnetworks.com/videos/for-arts-sake/kim-merrill&quot;&gt;&lt;img src=&quot;http://images.onnetworks.com/images/forartssake_merrill_425x239.jpg&quot; title=&quot;Kim Merrill - Painter&quot;&gt;&lt;/a&gt;</description>
 <pubDate>Thu, 06 Sep 2007 14:12:00 -0500</pubDate>
 <dc:creator>ON Networks</dc:creator>
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 <category domain="http://onnetworks.com/videos/for-arts-sake">For Art&amp;#039;s Sake</category>
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 <media:content medium="video" height="720" width="1280" bitrate="4164" framerate="24" samplingrate="44.1" channels="2" lang="en-US" url="http://podcast.onnetworks.com/videos/forartssake_merrill_1280x720.mp4?feed=video&amp;key=1733&amp;target=site" onntype="hd" />
</media:group>
 <media:player height="272" width="426" url="http://onnetworks.com/modules/onn_modules/onn_video_node/ONPlayerEmbed.swf?configFileName=http://onnetworks.com/embed_player/videos/for-arts-sake/kim-merrill?target=site"><![CDATA[<object width="426" height="272"><embed id="ONPlayerEmbed" width="426" height="272" allowfullscreen="true"  flashvars="configFileName=http://onnetworks.com/embed_player/videos/for-arts-sake/kim-merrill?target=site" scale="aspect" allowscriptaccess="always" quality="high" bgcolor="#000000" name="ONPlayer" style="" src="http://onnetworks.com/modules/onn_modules/onn_video_node/ONPlayerEmbed.swf?rid=1440255212&product_id=forartssake_merrill&target=site" type="application/x-shockwave-flash"></embed></object>]]></media:player>
 <media:title>Kim Merrill - Painter</media:title>
 <media:thumbnail width="640" height="360" url="http://images.onnetworks.com/images/forartssake_merrill_640x360.jpg" />
 <media:thumbnail width="425" height="239" url="http://images.onnetworks.com/images/forartssake_merrill_425x239.jpg" />
 <media:thumbnail width="56" height="56" url="http://images.onnetworks.com/images/forartssake_merrill_56x56.jpg" />
 <media:thumbnail width="178" height="100" url="http://images.onnetworks.com/images/forartssake_merrill_178x100.jpg" />
 <media:description type="html">A dedicated mother who discovered her talents later in life, but no less fulfilled.</media:description>
 <onnetworks:product_id>forartssake_merrill</onnetworks:product_id>
 <media:copyright>Copyright 2007-2008 ON Networks, Inc.</media:copyright>
 <enclosure url="http://podcast.onnetworks.com/videos/forartssake_merrill_480x270.mp4?feed=video&amp;key=1733&amp;target=site" type="video/quicktime" />
 <media:text type="html"><![CDATA[For Arts Sake
Episode “Kim Merrill, Painter”


Kim Merrill: Becoming an artist was something that I resisted. I shouldn’t say resisted. I didn’t even, didn’t even come into my consciousness. I was driven to create is so strange. But in the Midwest, I don’t know if it is the same across the country, there is that phallacy about artist. Or this belief that somehow oh those are the gifted people. You know somehow god shines down upon them and their able to create. It’s not for the common folk like me. 

And I think that’s what stopped me most of the time. To not even, it couldn’t even cross my mind that I could be or do that. I knew I was different from the other people in the family and I would seek out things to create. As a teenager I taught myself how to knit, crochet, quilt, all those things. I did all of the things that women in the Midwest did. 

And then we moved to California when I was about thirty two, and because we were so enamored with the landscape we bought a nice Nikon camera. And I started looking from the viewfinder, and my life changed from that time on. 

It was composition, it was all about shape and color and light. And I had been doing that with quilting of its kind of interesting because you frame in quilting also. Spending the first half of my life raising kids, being an executive’s wife, and then after I got divorced it was about the time ne of my kids was off to college and the other one had a year of high school left. For me at that point to decide that I was going to go to college finally. 

The summer before I started school, I actually went on the school trip to Greece, never been abroad. You know I had been to the peace canons in Canada. That was about the extent of y foreign travel. And it opened my eyes. It broke the confines of what I thought y life could be. I never thought I would be able to do something like that. 

So all new friends, new possibilities, an art career that was just a little bud, now it is just a little bit bigger bud. Once I had an object that I am working with. I start working with it in three dimensions, moving things around, different environments. Different lighting, and that’s kind of how I work out the composition. And then I will start taking photographs. Play with it in Photoshop, recrop it, maybe go back and reorganize the still life again. Add something else.

But it’s fairly freeform. And I really don’t feel like I am committed until I am into the painting. 
So to take an everyday object and to put it into a setting and cropping a composition that makes it a symbol for something else is largely what the magic of still life is for me. There is a certain thing that happens like especially with the marionette pieces that unlike looking at another human being painted, where you are the observer. You become the marionette or the life mask.

You put yourself in reverse psychology, into that human, in that setting of the painting. At least that’s my interpretation of it and I think other people probably feel similarly. The painting is magic. And especially oil painting. I don’t like water color. It is not as forgiving. There is just something about me creating that three dimensional form with this medium on a stick. I am a fairly tight painter. I have control of the mud on my stick. 
]]></media:text>
 <itunes:duration>5:09</itunes:duration>
 <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
 <itunes:keywords></itunes:keywords>
 <itunes:subtitle>A dedicated mother who discovered her talents later in life, but no less fulfilled.</itunes:subtitle>
 <itunes:author>ON Networks</itunes:author>
</item>
 <item> <title>Patrick Atangan - Comic Artist</title>
 <link>http://onnetworks.com/videos/for-arts-sake/patrick-atangan---comic-artist</link>
 <description>Patrick Atangan is an illustrator with a light touch and diverse artistic talents&lt;br&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://onnetworks.com/videos/for-arts-sake/patrick-atangan---comic-artist&quot;&gt;&lt;img src=&quot;http://images.onnetworks.com/images/forartssake_atangan_425x239.jpg&quot; title=&quot;Patrick Atangan - Comic Artist&quot;&gt;&lt;/a&gt;</description>
 <pubDate>Thu, 30 Aug 2007 16:32:00 -0500</pubDate>
 <dc:creator>ON Networks</dc:creator>
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 <category domain="http://onnetworks.com/videos/for-arts-sake">For Art&amp;#039;s Sake</category>
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 <media:content medium="video" height="720" width="1280" bitrate="4164" framerate="24" samplingrate="44.1" channels="2" lang="en-US" url="http://podcast.onnetworks.com/videos/forartssake_atangan_1280x720.mp4?feed=video&amp;key=1733&amp;target=site" onntype="hd" />
</media:group>
 <media:player height="272" width="426" url="http://onnetworks.com/modules/onn_modules/onn_video_node/ONPlayerEmbed.swf?configFileName=http://onnetworks.com/embed_player/videos/for-arts-sake/patrick-atangan---comic-artist?target=site"><![CDATA[<object width="426" height="272"><embed id="ONPlayerEmbed" width="426" height="272" allowfullscreen="true"  flashvars="configFileName=http://onnetworks.com/embed_player/videos/for-arts-sake/patrick-atangan---comic-artist?target=site" scale="aspect" allowscriptaccess="always" quality="high" bgcolor="#000000" name="ONPlayer" style="" src="http://onnetworks.com/modules/onn_modules/onn_video_node/ONPlayerEmbed.swf?rid=1892934197&product_id=forartssake_atangan&target=site" type="application/x-shockwave-flash"></embed></object>]]></media:player>
 <media:title>Patrick Atangan - Comic Artist</media:title>
 <media:thumbnail width="640" height="360" url="http://images.onnetworks.com/images/forartssake_atangan_640x360.jpg" />
 <media:thumbnail width="425" height="239" url="http://images.onnetworks.com/images/forartssake_atangan_425x239.jpg" />
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 <media:description type="html">Patrick Atangan is an illustrator with a light touch and diverse artistic talents</media:description>
 <onnetworks:product_id>forartssake_atangan</onnetworks:product_id>
 <media:copyright>Copyright 2007-2008 ON Networks, Inc.</media:copyright>
 <enclosure url="http://podcast.onnetworks.com/videos/forartssake_atangan_480x270.mp4?feed=video&amp;key=1733&amp;target=site" type="video/quicktime" />
 <media:text type="html"><![CDATA[For arts Sake
Episode “Patrick Atangan Comic Artist”

Peter Atangan:  I have always been involved in art in one form or another. One of my earliest memories was drawing in front of the TV. And that is something that I always felt like I would eventually be going into, and I have ever really thought of anything else. I can’t see myself doing anything else. 

I come from a family of accountants and it’s a little bit odd that I have become an artist. Or at least they see it as that. In comic books you are wearing a lot of different hats. You are a director you are a writer. You are a set designer, you do the costumes. It is very much a one man show. And it keeps my schizophrenic head occupied. It keeps me from being bored with my own work. 
It’s a book of short stories tentatively titled short stories. And what I am doing is I am collecting true childhood stories from my own childhood as well as those from my friends and family. 

When I originally approached people about this project and I told them I wanted just short two or three paragraphs. Illustrating something that happened in their lives that tells the reader a little bit about who they are as a person. There is going to be about a hundred of these stories. My intention with them, as the reader is reading it. Is to be able to step back and look at these stories collectively, as a self portrait. 

Because the number of stories is so large that they eventually start running into one another and hopefully the reader will eventually see it al as one voice. And the stories that I am getting, I am not saying that there are no happy moments in childhood. Childhood is filled with a great number of, of those moments. But you know happiness doesn’t necessarily make you who you are today, and doesn’t necessarily make you a better person. Childhood is very much about struggling, struggling through a world that wasn’t designed for you. 

When I designed these characters I designed them like stuffed animals purposefully, I gave them no hands and limns that couldn’t really do anything. And that very much reflects the world of a child. They are powerless to really affect any change in their environment. 

The idea of childhood as happy and fluffy, and I am using the art, the art itself as a contrast to the characters. They themselves are sweet looking; they are living out these lives that are quite tragic and sad. The art of Quiana, it basically talks about the art of cuteness, and how cuteness is basically distilled. You know this creature with the large head and eyes that have this vacant stare and no limbs. 

Very much like a baby in a sense, because that’s what babies are, these odd looking creatures, with big heads and eyes. And instinctively we want to protect things that look like that. The way it has been constructed on illustrator it actually feels like I am making an entire world. It is almost like I am building something in real life.  When I make a bookshelf I have to start with legs, make the sides of the bookshelf and actually make shelves. It’s unlike any type of drawing that I have done before, when before it was all very much surface. I actually have to think of these objects in three dimensions. 

Geez, why is it that I want to tell stories? I think it is because I have some interesting stories to tell. It’s in human nature to want to share. And this is my way of sharing what I grew up with and what I have to offer, as an artist, as a person.


]]></media:text>
 <itunes:duration>5:52</itunes:duration>
 <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
 <itunes:keywords></itunes:keywords>
 <itunes:subtitle>Patrick Atangan is an illustrator with a light touch and diverse artistic talents</itunes:subtitle>
 <itunes:author>ON Networks</itunes:author>
</item>
 <item> <title>John Frame - Sculptor</title>
 <link>http://onnetworks.com/videos/for-arts-sake/john-frame---sculptor</link>
 <description>An intimate interview with an artist who discovered a creative outlet in sculpting  &lt;br&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://onnetworks.com/videos/for-arts-sake/john-frame---sculptor&quot;&gt;&lt;img src=&quot;http://images.onnetworks.com/images/forartssake_frame_425x239.jpg&quot; title=&quot;John Frame - Sculptor&quot;&gt;&lt;/a&gt;</description>
 <pubDate>Thu, 23 Aug 2007 15:06:00 -0500</pubDate>
 <dc:creator>ON Networks</dc:creator>
 <guid isPermaLink="false">3160 at http://onnetworks.com</guid>
 <category domain="http://onnetworks.com/videos/for-arts-sake">For Art&amp;#039;s Sake</category>
 <media:group> <media:content medium="video" height="270" width="480" bitrate="1330" framerate="24" samplingrate="44.1" channels="2" lang="en-US" url="http://podcast.onnetworks.com/videos/forartssake_frame_480x270.mp4?feed=video&amp;key=1733&amp;target=site" onntype="sd" />
 <media:content medium="video" height="720" width="1280" bitrate="4164" framerate="24" samplingrate="44.1" channels="2" lang="en-US" url="http://podcast.onnetworks.com/videos/forartssake_frame_960x540.mp4?feed=video&amp;key=1733&amp;target=site" onntype="hd" />
</media:group>
 <media:player height="272" width="426" url="http://onnetworks.com/modules/onn_modules/onn_video_node/ONPlayerEmbed.swf?configFileName=http://onnetworks.com/embed_player/videos/for-arts-sake/john-frame---sculptor?target=site"><![CDATA[<object width="426" height="272"><embed id="ONPlayerEmbed" width="426" height="272" allowfullscreen="true"  flashvars="configFileName=http://onnetworks.com/embed_player/videos/for-arts-sake/john-frame---sculptor?target=site" scale="aspect" allowscriptaccess="always" quality="high" bgcolor="#000000" name="ONPlayer" style="" src="http://onnetworks.com/modules/onn_modules/onn_video_node/ONPlayerEmbed.swf?rid=358389632&product_id=forartssake_frame&target=site" type="application/x-shockwave-flash"></embed></object>]]></media:player>
 <media:title>John Frame - Sculptor</media:title>
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 <media:thumbnail width="425" height="239" url="http://images.onnetworks.com/images/forartssake_frame_425x239.jpg" />
 <media:thumbnail width="56" height="56" url="http://images.onnetworks.com/images/forartssake_frame_56x56.jpg" />
 <media:thumbnail width="178" height="100" url="http://images.onnetworks.com/images/forartssake_frame_178x100.jpg" />
 <media:description type="html">An intimate interview with an artist who discovered a creative outlet in sculpting  </media:description>
 <media:keywords>sculptor,sculpture,art,museum,collection,free,video,gallery,abstract,prints,bio,free,graphic, ,</media:keywords>
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 <media:copyright>Copyright 2007-2008 ON Networks, Inc.</media:copyright>
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 <media:text type="html"><![CDATA[For arts sake
Episode “John Frame sculptor”

John Frame: Well for me I knew really early on, probably when I was eight or nine or ten years old that there was something different in terms of internally. I could tell by referring to my peers and the people around me that the things that interested them did not interest me. And I just had this really strong sense of being different. 
And it wasn’t until I went off to college and experienced a Bergman film actually that I had found, an exterior reflection of my interior world. And that was what sort of launched my awareness that I was some kind of artist. I didn’t know what kind of artist, but from that point on. Which was probably about when I was seventeen or eighteen, it was a search for my particular form of art that my pursuit would take. And I thought it was going to be a write. 
I tried writing, I tried music, I tried some sorts of performance and t didn’t happen until actually I was in a graduate program in writing. , That I realized I would never be an exceptional writer. And started turning to two dimensional works. And somehow I had developed a kind of native skill with a pencil. Not a great ability to capture realism, but I was flexible with pencil. And I just thought oh, I will try this. 
And it felt right for awhile, then I kind of hit a block again and then one night I discovered sculpture, which was just kind of a fluke. It was just because I didn’t have the materials I ordinarily used for drawing painting and I just picked up a kitchen knife and a block of wood and it was magic. And from that moment on I realized this is the kind of artist I am. 
I grew up in the southern California car culture. My dad was a steel worker my mother was a cook for a local junior high school. And neither of them was educated, my father had a third grade education. My mother had a high school degree. But they were both just part of the labor force essentially. There was nothing cultural at our home at all. I never saw a symphony, I never heard music. Um, it was just cars and sports that were the two things in my world. Neither of them were of any interest to me at all. 
So I just had this really vigorous sense that there was something else waiting for me. And that I needed to leave home the minute I could and to find it. Really if I get all the way down to the base, the core of why I continue to do it and why I was called to it in the beginning, it was a spiritual question for me. Its, I am here on the planet. I know that I have a limited lifespan in this go round, there may be another go round I am not sure. 
But for some reason I think I had an innate sense of purpose that your not here to just take up space, you are here to do something. And you know finding what that is, is the chore. And once you discover what that is, then it is an act of will to achieve that. But I think it is all about a spiritual kind of calling. It is just my job to do the maximum I can do with my life while I have it. And anything less is going to be a disappointment somewhere down the road. For me or for someone I am not sure.
From the very beginning I have believed that is one of the best things to do with a human life. That it is not a frivolous thing to do at all. It is not in anyway a light thing to do with your life. It is actually a very serious pursuit, its ironic living in a culture that treats it as kind of this sideline. Something that, you know, flaky people do. And I have just believed the entire opposite from the beginning. It is one of the most profound things that you can do with your life. And again whether you’re painting or writing. It is one of the great gifts that we can give the world. 
A lot of people refer to life as an artist is one where you are only seeking to please yourself. And you’re only communicating with yourself really, it’s about what you have to say and how you get it out there and they don’t acknowledge that the audience plays an important part. I am just the opposite. For me the creating of the object is only completed when the audience is present. Meaning I can spend six months or a year working on something. But it only comes full circle when it is exposed to people. 
I don’t do it for them; I am not saying what would the audience like ultimately. But I am sensing as I move along that I am revealing myself in the work. I am putting my interior world into those images. And I need to have other people see them and respond to them to be competed. And it really is a kind of circuit. 
And for me there are two points of completion in the work. One is when I complete an image that I am really satisfied with and I guess it’s beautiful, compelling, interesting, whatever it is you want to call it. And I have a moment of joy in the studio, so… catching me quite off guard here.
Um, and I guess certainly the goal here is to put something into the world that can have that impact on others. And I have had that impact. When I had my solo shows both at the L.A. County. And at the long beach museum I had more than one person come to me in tears. And I felt like wow, that’s it. That’s what I am shooting for, and it doesn’t help as I see you tearing up over there as the interviewer. 
You will cut all this out right?



]]></media:text>
 <itunes:duration>6:02</itunes:duration>
 <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
 <itunes:keywords>sculptor sculpture art museum collection free video gallery abstract prints bio free graphic   </itunes:keywords>
 <itunes:subtitle>An intimate interview with an artist who discovered a creative outlet in sculpting  </itunes:subtitle>
 <itunes:author>ON Networks</itunes:author>
</item>
 <item> <title>F. Scott Hess - Collector</title>
 <link>http://onnetworks.com/videos/for-arts-sake/f.-scott-hess---collector</link>
 <description>An interest in genealogy kickstarts a collector&#039;s true passion&lt;br&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://onnetworks.com/videos/for-arts-sake/f.-scott-hess---collector&quot;&gt;&lt;img src=&quot;http://images.onnetworks.com/images/forartssake_hess_425x239.jpg&quot; title=&quot;F. Scott Hess - Collector&quot;&gt;&lt;/a&gt;</description>
 <pubDate>Wed, 15 Aug 2007 15:15:00 -0500</pubDate>
 <dc:creator>ON Networks</dc:creator>
 <guid isPermaLink="false">1734 at http://onnetworks.com</guid>
 <category domain="http://onnetworks.com/videos/for-arts-sake">For Art&amp;#039;s Sake</category>
 <media:group> <media:content medium="video" height="270" width="480" bitrate="1330" framerate="24" samplingrate="44.1" channels="2" lang="en-US" url="http://podcast.onnetworks.com/videos/forartssake_hess_480x270.mp4?feed=video&amp;key=1733&amp;target=site" onntype="sd" />
 <media:content medium="video" height="720" width="1280" bitrate="4164" framerate="24" samplingrate="44.1" channels="2" lang="en-US" url="http://podcast.onnetworks.com/videos/forartssake_hess_960x540.mp4?feed=video&amp;key=1733&amp;target=site" onntype="hd" />
</media:group>
 <media:player height="272" width="426" url="http://onnetworks.com/modules/onn_modules/onn_video_node/ONPlayerEmbed.swf?configFileName=http://onnetworks.com/embed_player/videos/for-arts-sake/f.-scott-hess---collector?target=site"><![CDATA[<object width="426" height="272"><embed id="ONPlayerEmbed" width="426" height="272" allowfullscreen="true"  flashvars="configFileName=http://onnetworks.com/embed_player/videos/for-arts-sake/f.-scott-hess---collector?target=site" scale="aspect" allowscriptaccess="always" quality="high" bgcolor="#000000" name="ONPlayer" style="" src="http://onnetworks.com/modules/onn_modules/onn_video_node/ONPlayerEmbed.swf?rid=1797353324&product_id=forartssake_hess&target=site" type="application/x-shockwave-flash"></embed></object>]]></media:player>
 <media:title>F. Scott Hess - Collector</media:title>
 <media:thumbnail width="640" height="360" url="http://images.onnetworks.com/images/forartssake_hess_640x360.jpg" />
 <media:thumbnail width="425" height="239" url="http://images.onnetworks.com/images/forartssake_hess_425x239.jpg" />
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 <media:copyright>Copyright 2007-2008 ON Networks, Inc.</media:copyright>
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 <media:text type="html"><![CDATA[

For Arts Sake

Episode "F. Scott Hess Collector"


F. Scott Hess: A few years ago, three years ago, I was out east visiting a friend who was also an amateur genealogist. And she said well give me the names of your grandparent’s. So I did that, and within half an hour she pulled up there wedding announcement in the New York Times. I got an email from her and it had a picture of the senator, she said in the email, on one line this is your great, great grandfather. And after that I was hooked. 

It was said that Alfred Iverson gave, gave the first speech ever on succession on the floor of the US senate. This particular piece was created by famous American artist Winslow Homer. And it was done from photographs done by Matthew Brady, the most famous photographer of his day. 

A few years ago I found out about my family history and started collecting some works. These come from; these works are from Calvin Lemieux Hule a painter who lived in Missouri in the middle of the 1850's. I have a cousin, a distant cousin, who has collected a number of these works. She is 92 years old; she is not in very good health. And as she is running out of money I am buying these paintings from her. SO I have collected now 7 paintings from Calvin Lemieux Hule, she has over a dozen all together. She is a little bit secretive so I am not sure how many she has got. He is somewhat of an unknown painter in Missouri, but he was a friend of George Kalem Biggham, and I think historically he will become a very important painter in Missouri history. 

Calvin Lemieux Hule, the footsore painter from Missouri. Was born in 1811, he died in 1863 after the wounds that he sustained in the battle of Pea Ridge. He was a intenerate painter. He traveled around Missouri, mostly painting portraits of people.  He somehow ran into my great, great grandparents who had moved to Rocheport Missouri in 1856. During the late 50's he painted at least a dozen paintings for these ancestors of mine. These paintings cover approximatly300 years of American history.

This painting depicts the battle of Kings Mountain in the revolutionary war. I had three ancestors fight in that battle The Over Mountain Men came equipped with rifles that they had used to fight the Indians in the backwoods and so those rifles would shoot about three hundred yards. The British muskets would only shoot about a hundred yards. So the Americans came up the hillside and stood behind trees and picked out the British who were outlined against the top of the hill. And in that way could defeat a much better trained and equipped army. They also were very angry and that put a lot of fervor into there attacks. They came up the hill yelling like the Indians they had been fighting. And what later became the rebel yell was first heard on this mountainside. 

In 1835 Calvin Hule married Lizzy Pule. And that was in Boonsville Missouri. They had seven sons, of those seven sons; happily for Calvin he didn’t want his sons to become painters. Only one of them became a painter that was his second son, Lemieux Hule. Lemieux traveled all over during the civil war dressed as a woman. He did this to avoid the draft and he was quite successful at it. For awhile he was even an entertainer and a spy, a confederate spy, spying on Butler and his troops in New Orleans. 

The general, who is depicted in grey in the back of this painting, back up in here, is my great, great grandfather. He was a brigadier general for the confederates, named Alfred Iverson. He captured, near his birthplace of Clinton Georgia, the highest ranking union soldier captured during the entire civil war. That was major general Stoneman, who was a cavalry officer. When he captured him, my great, great grandfather outsmarted him and trapped him. Stoneman had a much superior force, but he thought he was surrounded and he gave up with 600 or 700 of his men, the rest escaped for awhile. When he realized he had been beaten by such a rag tag southern force, he burst into tears and cried. Eventually he was given back to the union after several months, and fought a little bit more, and eventually became governor of California. 
 
Thaddeus Holt in his early years he was on a number of duels and knife fights and in this particular duel that is depicted here he got part of his jaw shot out. And the family held on to it, he became quite disfigured of course. A sculptor by the name of Lamar Rankin was hired by the family to make this memorial. 

Picture this at the convention of 1860 at the Democratic Party, which was attended by Alfred Iverson, although he never used this particular instrument, this was just the secessionist’s megaphone, which they let out there vehemence against the north. 

Not only can you go back to the past and keep finding out tons and tons of information. But you also figure out your part of it now, your going to pass into that list soon enough and so will your children and there children and hopefully some of this gets passed down to them and they enjoy it for a few centuries more. 

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 <pubDate>Wed, 15 Aug 2007 15:16:00 -0500</pubDate>
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 <media:text type="html"><![CDATA[For arts sake
Episode “Peter Zokosky, Painter”

Peter: I am going to talk about a painting that is in progress, which is a little bit foolish. But in this painting I though it would be interesting to show this ape or monkey standing on it hind legs and its holding a rock. And then meanwhile what’s going on is the crabs, as the day light comes in they have to go back in the water. This creature which is, I am not sure if it really knows there is a threat. Maybe it just senses something in its field of vision its not sure of how to deal with it and of course that makes me think abut us. 
We are all the time faced with threat and something that can hurt us. I think the crab is in this dilemma that if it stays were it is its going to die, its going to get baked in the sun. It has to get back to the water. Yet there is something in the ay. Water represents safety but it also represents death in this particular case. Because the monkey is smart enough to know if it places itself between the water and the sun it can get the crab. And I think there is that overriding inevitability about life and death in all of our little dramas.
Getting rid of the horizon line I think was just something about zeroing in on the little drama. And I thought that with a few shadows, a little bit of water. A little bit of foam it would tell the story enough and be less about the place that’s happening and more about the relationship between animals. 
My intent I don’t expect somebody to get that, the intent had to be there on my part to sort of push me on to do it and be fully engaged in the struggle. There is a huge amount that’s subconscious, subliminal. Or in that realm where you’re just trying to make it right and you don’t even know what right means but you have to feel like something is there. 
And a huge part of when a painting is satisfying is when it feels right. Not when everything line sup mathematically and not when it conforms to your preconceived ideas. But when it somehow just feels like its done what it’s done. So if somebody else has a different interpretation about what a painting means, that’s fine. I think that’s quite good, and maybe they are right. I think the visual arts actually do that. They dint put it into words, but they put it into concrete form. 
Therein lies the efficiency, the beauty, the thrill of it, when that thing in the eternal world encapsulates that kind of internal feeling. I can’t help but think that’s important. When that is achieved the art that I saw as a child, when I go back and see the same art, it has different meaning for me now and it is every bit as profound and every bit as amazing, and you wonder how did that artist make a painting for a middle age man? And how is it that that painting was made for me as a child? 
Why is it that it works so well for whatever level of development I was at? And I think that when you are tapping in to or uncovering something that approaches a universal or whatever. I don’t know if I believe in universals. But I do think one can get closer and closer to something that almost speaks in a universal voice. To all people and all time. I think mystery is extremely important and I think all the most important things are mysterious. 
But I think, to have a better grasp on the unknown is an interesting endeavor, fully realizing that you will never get it. And I think that maybe that is something that is wonderful about life and being a human being is that you’re going to end up dust. But in the meantime you can experience something so profound and so amazing and I think that it is a good reminder that the dust that is where we are heading and that is, that’s fine that’s ok. 
But it doesn’t in any way negates the beauty and the experience of all of this. This doesn’t become mere mortal coil that will soon be dropped, and then we will be in a stable state again. It is this transitory, mysterious, ridiculous, sublime, beautiful, terrifying, thing that we get to experience for a very, very finite period of time. And I love that. And if art can scratch away at that I think that it’s doing something meaningful. 



 
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